so what's hop-pening with these toads?
Sorry about the pun; I can't resist.
So I don't see anything awful about this John Roberts guy so far, but the discussion over his nomination has made me start thinking of something that has bothered me since I first read about it. In a 2003 dissent, Roberts argued that because a certain species of toad only exists in California, it might not be governed by the Endangered Species Act. (See this article in the Miami Herald. Now I don't see this as a reason to oppose Roberts, since he's said there might be other justifications for the act and he said he thought it should be reviewed anyway. I'd worry if he displayed a general disregard for environmental legistlation, but this article suggests that's not going to be a problem. But I'm vexed by the specific argument in the toad case.
Even tho I'm sympathetic with the New Deal and its descendants, it's pretty clear that the federal government uses "interstate commerce" to justify all sorts of things the Foudners wouldn't have intended. So I could understand if some people, even members of the federal judiciary, thought that the *entire* Endangered Species Act is unconstitutional. But I believe precedent establishes that if you're justifying a law using the commerce clause, you can't use the "I kept it in one state" excuse to get out of it. The most recent example is the Supreme Court ruling on marijuana in California (the CNN story linked there cites the majority opinion, which says the thing being regulated must have a "substantial effect" on interstate commerce). One of the other interns here, a law student, mentioned a case from the New Deal era in which a farmer grew and ate his own crops in Ohio and felt he should be exempt from regulation (he lost).
The point is I don't think you can do piecemeal federalism. The Endangered Species Act is a lot like laws governing *actual* interstate commerce; to be effective, it has to regulate things that stay within one state, because they have an overall effect on everyone else. Besides, if the point of the "federalism revolution" is to empower states, this doesn't seem to do it. Let's say the California toad had been exempted from the act. California might want to protect it, but if it did, it would be forced to create an entire program just for this one create that happened to stay in-state most of the time. I could see the Supreme Court or Congress deciding that species regulation is best left to the states. But exempting a handful of species doesn't seem to help them do that.
But -- as this blog is about questions -- does anyone know of a *different* sort of justification for exempting species that stay within one state, one that would be compatible with commerce clause precedent? Or am I just hopping mad?
So I don't see anything awful about this John Roberts guy so far, but the discussion over his nomination has made me start thinking of something that has bothered me since I first read about it. In a 2003 dissent, Roberts argued that because a certain species of toad only exists in California, it might not be governed by the Endangered Species Act. (See this article in the Miami Herald. Now I don't see this as a reason to oppose Roberts, since he's said there might be other justifications for the act and he said he thought it should be reviewed anyway. I'd worry if he displayed a general disregard for environmental legistlation, but this article suggests that's not going to be a problem. But I'm vexed by the specific argument in the toad case.
Even tho I'm sympathetic with the New Deal and its descendants, it's pretty clear that the federal government uses "interstate commerce" to justify all sorts of things the Foudners wouldn't have intended. So I could understand if some people, even members of the federal judiciary, thought that the *entire* Endangered Species Act is unconstitutional. But I believe precedent establishes that if you're justifying a law using the commerce clause, you can't use the "I kept it in one state" excuse to get out of it. The most recent example is the Supreme Court ruling on marijuana in California (the CNN story linked there cites the majority opinion, which says the thing being regulated must have a "substantial effect" on interstate commerce). One of the other interns here, a law student, mentioned a case from the New Deal era in which a farmer grew and ate his own crops in Ohio and felt he should be exempt from regulation (he lost).
The point is I don't think you can do piecemeal federalism. The Endangered Species Act is a lot like laws governing *actual* interstate commerce; to be effective, it has to regulate things that stay within one state, because they have an overall effect on everyone else. Besides, if the point of the "federalism revolution" is to empower states, this doesn't seem to do it. Let's say the California toad had been exempted from the act. California might want to protect it, but if it did, it would be forced to create an entire program just for this one create that happened to stay in-state most of the time. I could see the Supreme Court or Congress deciding that species regulation is best left to the states. But exempting a handful of species doesn't seem to help them do that.
But -- as this blog is about questions -- does anyone know of a *different* sort of justification for exempting species that stay within one state, one that would be compatible with commerce clause precedent? Or am I just hopping mad?
7 Comments:
At 1:33 PM, Theo p. said…
I think that the main concern of Judge Roberts in the decent you mention was that besides the toads being solely in California, they were not in anyway connected to commerce. Therefore the D.C. Circuit should have followed the recent Supreme Decision which dissallowed Congresses guns around schools act because guns around schools were not commerce as well as being local (sorry about the lack of citation). In the corn case eating corn you grow is in commerce because you would have had to buy that corn if you didn't grow it. Thats the argument anyway. Hop er hope that helps and doesn't leave you toadly confused.
At 1:34 PM, Theo p. said…
or is that toad-a-ly
At 2:36 PM, Andrew said…
Yes, you could argue against the Endangered Species Act by claiming it isn't commerce. But that's not what I'm getting at here. What I'm asking is, if a situation is already considered to be governed by "commerce," what are the standards to determine whether or not it is "interstate"? Is there a reasonable standard that would not eviscerate such laws (and make it more difficult for states to regulate things anyway)?
By the way, I *do* think Roberts's decision was based on the "interstate" element (tho he may have disagreed with "commerce" as well).
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